NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/2659

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Path: cup.portal.com!Gemini2
From: [e-mail] (Gary Alan Peake)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: 22 Jan 1996 22:20:16 -0800
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>
>Eric vs Gary [again]
>[lots of snips]

Thank you ...!!

>>GP> Why contract out the coding as they are?
>>
>>Does that scare you a bit?  We're still not sure about the
>>subcontractor for the OS.  I'd love to know what AT told them about the
>>requirements for OS4.
>
>As would everybody else. I`m sure that everybody has their own ideas about OS
>upgrades. I`d be happy if they incorporporated lots of new and useful features
>and fixed a few bugs. Just so that I don`t have to run patches and utilities t
o
>start with the system that I want.

Well, that's easy enough to handle. Jump into the middle of the posts with
Olaf. He's here daily taking questions and suggestions. No one seems to be
getting told to 'shut up'. How he gets any work done, I don't know. Hope
he's on a vitamin supplemet program or has some tremendous stamina. The
questions/suggestions are really flowing.



>>GP> Why the 'Surfer Package' (that took extra money and time)?
>>
>>Well, to make money, for one thing.  Only Oracle seems to be entering
>>that type of market right now.  The problem is that by providing a
>>full-fledged 1200 with the Net suite, the price is significantly higher
>>than Oracle's product.  And that Net suite had better be good, or the
>>Surfer package (what an awful name!) will fail.
>
>The surfer package is something that`s eminently better as a black box with
>infrared keyboard - sound like something from an AT press release?
>It should cost no more than a Saturn with Intenet add-on. ie in the UK no more
>than 399UK pounds.
>
>Nobody who knows anything about the Internet would go for a 14.4k modem, and I
>know I`d be narked if they didn`t include a 28.8k option. How about if they
>markeed registered versions of just the software and let us choose a modem
>(unles their deal is cheaper than what we`d be able to get a, say, Motorola
>3400 for).

Again, we miss the point of the Surfer. What better way to get new users
than to offer a net package right out of the box? Maybe not the hottest
modem available, but that also helps 3rd party developers stay with the
Amiga. The WHOLE picture has to be looked at. If AT offered a 28.8k modem,
then the bitchin would be about the 'brand' of modem! Ask any Supra or
Sportser advocate if you doubt this.


>>GP> The first three months I would not have argued so strongly FOR
>>GP> Amiga Technologies. But, if you add up all these 'Why' type things
>>GP> you will begin to see that they DO have a plan.
>>
>>They may have some sort of plan, but I'm still not sure what it is, AT
>>isn't volunteering information, and I have reservations about the parts
>>we do know about.  And I'm not alone, Gary.  You can tell just from the
>>posts here.
>
>We all want what`s best for the Amiga, I`m sure. But we are also consumers as
>well. The price has got to be right, and that`s something that hasn`t impresse
d
>me since the relaunch of the Amiga. Tech specs are disappointing too. We need
>somthing to re-inspire us, in terms of price and tech spec.

Amiga Technologies has a plan that may not fit every user in the user base.
BUT, getting new users should be top priority right now. If we all wait for
PPC cards and the PPC Amiga, they will still have us in the future. And if
AT can sell enough 1300's and 4000T's now, then the perfect upgrade path
will be to the PPC. It's a simple looking plan to me? I can't understand why
it's so darn hard to grasp for others.

[snip ... again]


>>GP> For this year, Amiga Technologies should be chasing
>>GP> the new 'entry level' people with the 1200 Surfer Package. These entry
>>GP> level users now will be what adds to the current user base when the PPC's
>>GP> come out. THAT will make this a viable solution again.
>>
>>But can AT cut through the M$ brainwash factory that "more power =
>>better"?  Or will the public see the 1200 package (I refuse to call it
>>"Surfer") as a toy?
>
>It`ll continue to look like a toy the more that the big-box PC`s get into the
>general public`s consciousness. In the UK, an Amiga big box should be designed
>to look apart from the PC crowd. The most obvious idea is to have a custom
>coloured box. I for one will admit that attractive cases would put any
>machine/item, be it hi-fi, video, TV, computer higher up my list as I don`t
>want to be looking at something that I can look at day in day out and get a
>positive reaction... why else do you think Sports coupe`s stand out from the
>general boring family salon crowd?

Less than 5% of the cars sold are 'sports coupes' in that sense of the word.
Well away from making it profitable for Amiga Technologies if the same %
would hold.

>>GP> >I think that these questions are valid, but corporations, like any other
>>GP> >physical entity, tend to follow the path of least resistance:
>>
>>GP> >1) By buying the 1200s and 4000Ts out there, we are contributing to the
>>GP> >coffers of AT's R&D efforts.  But do we want outdated machines?
>>GP> >Especially with the PPC announcement.  Amiga owners are patient by
>>GP> >nature when it comes to the system.  How many people won't wait a year?
>>
>>GP> See, made my point. We WILL wait a year. They are/should be chasing new,
>>GP> entry level buyers who will expand into that new PPC later on.
>>
>>These are rhetorical questions, Gary...
>
>I`ll answer them - I don`t want to buy an outdated A1200, that isn`t
>necessarily compatible with a few games (which I may have) at a higher price
>than I could have bought them for before C= collapsed. I don`t want to buy an
>overpriced A4000T with it`s associated memory problems and outdated ZIII slots
.
>
>
>Certainly not to benefit AT. And definately not to use either. It`s just like
>asking several thousand Amigans to cough up some money so they can develop new
>machines. AT might have shot themselves in the foot when announcing the PPC -
>seasoned Amigans immediately forgot about any thoughts of buying the current
>machines and will wait.

Exactly what I said? WE WILL WAIT. Amiga Technologies should be chasing the
new users until the PPC is ready for us. No debate here!


>I *am* waiting for the PPC, but if AT can improve the A1200Plus to the point
>where they essentially have an AGAPlus chipset (HD disk drives, extra sound,
>DSP?), and an easy upgrade path to PPC with no penalties against buying a
>similr native PPC machine, then I`ll get one (at the right price).
>
>>
>>GP> No long term money can be made from current models. Those of us buying th
e
>>GP> new stock are just upgrading from 500-600 or ECS or we are the ones who
>>GP> wanted a 4000 and couldn't get one back when.
>>
>>Again, rhetorical questions.  But you must admit that it's cheaper not
>>to do R&D if these models are selling.
>
>AT should know that any cash made from these AGA machines to relieve backlogs
>and demand will not last long. The technology will not last long, maybe this
>Xmas, certainly not till Xmas 1997.

Yep, I think from all the speeches and press releases they've made that they
are certainly aware of this. Another mute point then?

>>GP> >3) If we wait and not buy the systems available now, will AT go
>>GP> >belly-up, in which case we'll never see a new Amiga system?  It looks
>>GP> >like Escom is looking to see whether or not AT will sink or float, and
>>GP> >if it starts to sink, will Escom pull the trigger?
>>
>>GP> Nope, too much invested now.
>>
>>Guess what I'm going to say?  You didn't have to answer these.  I just
>>wanted to clarify the questions that a lot of people are asking.
>>
>>So a corporation is going to keep a money-losing subsidiary afloat in
>>order to lose more money?  I hope the German tax code is as lax about
>>businesses as the US's is.  That's the only reason I'd do something
>>like that.
>
>They`ll certainly cut their losses if AT looks to be going into a slow death.
>Any sensible non-fanatic Amiga owner who weighed up the news and facts would
>forget about getting an AGA machine and wait for the PPC. If this wrecks AT`s
>plans to get cash for R&D, then I`m afraid they`ve picked the wrong "fanatics"

NEW USERS!!! How soon we forget?

>>GP> >I hope that none of these are true, and that AT does have the best in
>>GP> >mind for the Amiga, but illustrated like that, it is a no-win
>>GP> >situation.  The question has to be put out, and I hope that
>>GP> >Kittel/Bourdin can refute this line of argument.
>>
>>Notice you didn't respond to this section, Gary...
>
>Well, can you think of a mindlessly optimisitic answer to that? ;)

I answered him point by point? Maybe taking off the blinders would help?  :)

>
>[snip]
>
>>
>>GP> >No, what I really want to see, Gary, was your justification on the
>>GP> >technological end of it all.  I wanted to see you fly through hoops
>>GP> >saying that this was the greatest thing in the universe and that
>>GP> >everyone at AT were geniuses for putting the 1300 out.  However, I
>>GP> >don't think you'd really do that, even if you are the most gormless AT
>>GP> >camp follower on occasion.  But the disguises are off.  If AT does the
>>GP> >1300 for money, that's perfectly fine and a good thing in the minds of
>>GP> >everyone here.  But trying to disguise that with other reasons would be
>>GP> >disingenuous.  Glad you and I both see it that way.
>>
>>GP> Still think the Surfer stuff is going to do great! That in itself is
>>GP> something we've never had.
>>
>>I don't think it's going to do as great as you think it is.  It's going
>>to be a fair-to-middling success at best.  It makes the fact that
>>they'd better not make any false moves with the PPC even more
>>important.
>
>If it isn`t at the *right price*, the surfer pack will fade into
>insignificance. There are plenty of 400UK pound solutions to netsurfing, Satur
n
>and Philips CDi to start with. That Oracle box to come. The Amiga should be
>pitched in there at the same price with all the netsurfing stuff (14.4k, more
>for the 28.8k, of course). A decent Amiga has many chances of beating away the
>opposition and becoming a string force in the low end, but it`ll never become
>popular until the price comes down.

The 'right price' is whatever price the production can be sold at. Lot's of
people pay full sticker for an Infinity and it ain't that great of a car!
Not $60,000 worth anyway.


Gary
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